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gamechanger2011 Champion Author Wichita Posts:1,525 Points:54,110 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Apr 18, 2012 12:23:23 PM Ignore gamechanger2011 Report Abuse In NASCAR, we are using Sunoco Green E15, a blend of 15 percent ethanol and 85 percent gasoline. Last year, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency approved E15 for all vehicles built in the last decade, which is more than 80 percent of the cars and trucks on the roads today. I like to think that if E15 is good enough for my racing team, it’s certainly good enough for everyday street cars. In fact, NASCAR just surpassed 2 million miles of driving — in practice, qualifying and racing laps — on E15 without a hitch in what can only be described as a seamless transition. Plus, we’ve also seen enhanced performance. In fact, many of the teams have reported an increase in horsepower. In my mind, this proves that E15 is a viable alternative to regular gasoline. One of the things that many people don’t know about ethanol is that it is 113-octane, and has been in our fuel mix since Henry Ford built the first Model T. So ethanol not only offers us a clean, renewable alternative to gasoline from foreign oil, it also offers us more horsepower, and better efficiency in today’s high-compression engines with clean octane. E15 is a viable alternative to regular gas [Edited by: gamechanger2011 at 4/18/2012 12:29:36 PM EST]

gamechanger2011

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Wichita

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Message Posted: Apr 18, 2012 12:23:23 PM

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In NASCAR, we are using Sunoco Green E15, a blend of 15 percent ethanol and 85 percent gasoline. Last year, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency approved E15 for all vehicles built in the last decade, which is more than 80 percent of the cars and trucks on the roads today. I like to think that if E15 is good enough for my racing team, it’s certainly good enough for everyday street cars.

In fact, NASCAR just surpassed 2 million miles of driving — in practice, qualifying and racing laps — on E15 without a hitch in what can only be described as a seamless transition. Plus, we’ve also seen enhanced performance. In fact, many of the teams have reported an increase in horsepower. In my mind, this proves that E15 is a viable alternative to regular gasoline.

One of the things that many people don’t know about ethanol is that it is 113-octane, and has been in our fuel mix since Henry Ford built the first Model T. So ethanol not only offers us a clean, renewable alternative to gasoline from foreign oil, it also offers us more horsepower, and better efficiency in today’s high-compression engines with clean octane.
E15 is a viable alternative to regular gas

[Edited by: gamechanger2011 at 4/18/2012 12:29:36 PM EST]

REPLIES (newest first)Ignore Short Messages

reb4 Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,076 Points:1,818,125 Joined:Sep 2004	Message Posted: Jun 3, 2012 8:18:26 PM Ignore reb4 Report Abuse ethyl gasoline - article about introduction back in Dayton, OHIO it's not available, or maybe it is if you are willing to pay 7.00 a gallon in chicago
GM1954 Champion Author Illinois Posts:7,950 Points:131,880 Joined:Dec 2004	Message Posted: Jun 3, 2012 11:52:19 AM Ignore GM1954 Report Abuse "Back in those days the pumps were actually tagged with the name Ethel. " I think the term "ethel" refers to the compound, tetraethyl lead.
65chevyC20 Rookie Author Kansas Posts:2 Points:2,420 Joined:Jun 2012	Message Posted: Jun 3, 2012 11:48:54 AM Ignore 65chevyC20 Report Abuse Younger people in the USA don't understand that ethanol was used in pump gas back in the sixties they stoped using it because the newer car engines could not handle (an excuse) now there finding it is more Environmental friendly. Back in those days the pumps were actually tagged with the name Ethel. So ethanol is not new the oil companies are using it to jack up prices! People don't understand the oil and gas companies are greedy and have no problem with ripping off the consumer.
Edpap Champion Author Pennsylvania Posts:4,304 Points:502,925 Joined:Oct 2011	Message Posted: Jun 3, 2012 11:09:46 AM Ignore Edpap Report Abuse You probably have a high compression engine in NASCAR, which likes ethanol. Most folks don't have one and get less than satisfactory results.
reb4 Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,076 Points:1,818,125 Joined:Sep 2004	Message Posted: Jun 3, 2012 10:32:39 AM Ignore reb4 Report Abuse 20Yoleven, I think the law recognized this and wanted to have ethanol begin to come more from waste materials but the ethanol industry has yet to be able to acheive that goal. There will be some re-evaluation of this in the coming years... I am sure...
GM1954 Champion Author Illinois Posts:7,950 Points:131,880 Joined:Dec 2004	Message Posted: Jun 3, 2012 7:28:16 AM Ignore GM1954 Report Abuse "IMHO, converting our food supply, into car fuel, was a huge mistake. Because we have huge supplies of untapped shale oil, and shelved clean coal technology. Meanwhile, among other things, Ethanol have raised our grocery prices." What makes you think we are "converting our food supply?" Farmers simply grew more corn to meet ethanol demand. The US is a surplus producer of grain. We have such a capacity, that the USDA pays landowners not to grow crops. Makes more sense to me to use reserve capacity at home to produce fuel, rather than importing oil. "Meanwhile, among other things, Ethanol have raised our grocery prices." With or without ethanol, the price of grain would have gone up. Grain is a commodity. It's price is tied highly to the value of the US dollar. Dollar drops, oil, grain, pork bellies, and orange juice go up in price.
20Yoleven Champion Author New Jersey Posts:5,817 Points:822,230 Joined:Nov 2010	Message Posted: Jun 3, 2012 7:03:59 AM Ignore 20Yoleven Report Abuse IMHO, converting our food supply, into car fuel, was a huge mistake. Because we have huge supplies of untapped shale oil, and shelved clean coal technology. Meanwhile, among other things, Ethanol have raised our grocery prices. Some where there’s going to have to be a line drawn in the sand, with the environmental wackos. Their nonsense has to stop, or be stopped.
gamechanger2011 Champion Author Wichita Posts:1,525 Points:54,110 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Jun 2, 2012 11:36:23 AM Ignore gamechanger2011 Report Abuse Yep....blenders are the way to go. We were able to offer E15 months ago because of blender pumps. It's staring to take off too. I think that more individuals are become aware of it.
ethanolbob All-Star Author Maryland Posts:716 Points:137,325 Joined:Aug 2007	Message Posted: Jun 2, 2012 10:53:29 AM Ignore ethanolbob Report Abuse Blender pumps are the real way to go.
ethanolbob All-Star Author Maryland Posts:716 Points:137,325 Joined:Aug 2007	Message Posted: Jun 2, 2012 10:53:18 AM Ignore ethanolbob Report Abuse Blender pumps are the real way to go.
reb4 Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,076 Points:1,818,125 Joined:Sep 2004	Message Posted: Apr 21, 2012 10:38:04 AM Ignore reb4 Report Abuse I would be interested in knowing the real reason why nascar switched to e15. Personally, I would like them to switch to 98% ethanol or methanol... very few people really believe that these vehicles are truly "stock" cars with the modifications that are made... Avg engine is $45K and lucky to last a season or two without major work... I believe part of the reason was to try to clean up their act... as far as being a dirty environmental sport Criticism of NASCAR - wiki link Some other possible reasons for Nascar Partnership with ethanol... $$$$'s Another link supporting the marketing aspect.... [Edited by: reb4 at 4/21/2012 10:38:39 AM EST]
GM1954 Champion Author Illinois Posts:7,950 Points:131,880 Joined:Dec 2004	Message Posted: Apr 21, 2012 7:36:25 AM Ignore GM1954 Report Abuse "Are the NASCAR teams seeing an increase in performance due to the fuel or the new fuel injection systems they are supposedly running?" It's the fuel. This is well proven for over 70 years. It's because ethanol requires much less air to burn. Less air going through the intake means more room for fuel. About 30% more fuel which translates to 30% more HP than can be obtained with gasoline in the same engine. What no one has mentioned, the NASCAR originated from the "stock cars" modified to run moonshine in the 1930s. It's only fitting that today's stock cars are powered with the product they originally were created to transport. Sorry to hear about the death of the Holly 4150. It makes me wonder if the move to fuel injection means higher concentrations of ethanol, down the road, so to speak.
gamechanger2011 Champion Author Wichita Posts:1,525 Points:54,110 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Apr 21, 2012 12:03:57 AM Ignore gamechanger2011 Report Abuse mgune9....the reason that Nascar has been using E15 was to test it. They have logged 2,000,000 miles on it. The EPA has done extensive testing and research and has approved it for cars made 2001 and newer. We have 2 stations that sell both gas and ethanol. We talk to people all the time that have been using higher blends then that in their older non FFV's for years and love it. We have used E40 in our '08 non FFV and it runs great on it. [Edited by: gamechanger2011 at 4/21/2012 12:04:01 AM EST]
mgune9 All-Star Author Dallas Posts:914 Points:200,395 Joined:Feb 2012	Message Posted: Apr 20, 2012 11:57:03 PM Ignore mgune9 Report Abuse E15 may be fine for race cars, but not a good choice for ready vehicles.
gamechanger2011 Champion Author Wichita Posts:1,525 Points:54,110 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Apr 20, 2012 11:42:16 PM Ignore gamechanger2011 Report Abuse tropicalm....that is excellent. That would make sense! tatoo...ethanol is higher octane so it gives them a boost in horsepower. We have people buy E85 for their race cars. They want summer blend which has more ethanol and is higher octane. I wouldn't be surprised if Nascar doesn't eventually switch to E85. [Edited by: gamechanger2011 at 4/20/2012 11:44:42 PM EST]
tattoo666TX Champion Author Texas Posts:2,567 Points:344,480 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Apr 20, 2012 11:27:34 PM Ignore tattoo666TX Report Abuse Are the NASCAR teams seeing an increase in performance due to the fuel or the new fuel injection systems they are supposedly running?
tropicalmn Sophomore Author Minnesota Posts:172 Points:144,965 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Apr 20, 2012 11:16:39 PM Ignore tropicalmn Report Abuse I think Cornhick is Biethanol. Sometimes he's Proethanol & sometimes he's Antiethanol ;)
gamechanger2011 Champion Author Wichita Posts:1,525 Points:54,110 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Apr 20, 2012 8:38:10 PM Ignore gamechanger2011 Report Abuse Cornhick...you are misinformed. I thought last month that you were asking about pricing of E85.
CORNHICK All-Star Author Omaha Posts:596 Points:269,885 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Apr 20, 2012 12:51:27 PM Ignore CORNHICK Report Abuse ethanol is a horrible fuel Brazil is the only country that uses ethanol and their land is horrible it is all used up for sugar cane so they can't grow regular food for their people so they are just growing fuel and buying there food from elsewhere at a higher price hmm some price savings
gamechanger2011 Champion Author Wichita Posts:1,525 Points:54,110 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Apr 20, 2012 11:32:42 AM Ignore gamechanger2011 Report Abuse GM1954 is right. The reason that they can run on E100 in Brazil is the warm weather. If the temperature drops below 50* then you have to have a heater to run E100.
chemist74 Champion Author Cleveland Posts:13,510 Points:2,395,980 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: Apr 20, 2012 9:33:44 AM Ignore chemist74 Report Abuse The last figure I have seen indicate that the average age of all cars/light trucks on the road is about 10 years so only about half of the vehicles on the road would be approved by the EPA for E15, not 80%.
GM1954 Champion Author Illinois Posts:7,950 Points:131,880 Joined:Dec 2004	Message Posted: Apr 20, 2012 9:12:24 AM Ignore GM1954 Report Abuse "I always thought brazil ran nearly all their vehicles on sugar cane ethanol, which is far higher energy content than the ethanol offered from Corn..." This is an absurd statement. Ethanol is a single, simple molecule. The energy content is the same, regardless of how it is made. "So yes, GM1954, there are pumps offering e100, but not as common as you want people to believe..." I've never made such a claim. I simply stated cars, similar or identical to those in the US, are powered by "100%" ethanol. I place the 100 in quotes, as the fuel grade ethanol in Brazil is in the Hydrous form. It contains about 4% water by volume. This is significant for two reasons. Dehydrating the ethanol, as is required in the US, is more costly. Second, water can help improve combustion efficiency.
reb4 Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,076 Points:1,818,125 Joined:Sep 2004	Message Posted: Apr 20, 2012 8:53:22 AM Ignore reb4 Report Abuse GM1954, "You assume E100 is unrealistic and impractical. But, E100 is what is sold at the pump in Brazil. The cars are basically the same FFVs sold here. The joke appears to be on you. " Total Ethanol useage in Brazil is not that high really I always thought brazil ran nearly all their vehicles on sugar cane ethanol, which is far higher energy content than the ethanol offered from Corn... However the above link shows the facts of how much oil / ethanol are produced in Brazil... More information on Brazil - ethanol... So yes, GM1954, there are pumps offering e100, but not as common as you want people to believe...
GM1954 Champion Author Illinois Posts:7,950 Points:131,880 Joined:Dec 2004	Message Posted: Apr 20, 2012 7:50:28 AM Ignore GM1954 Report Abuse "Hey Reb4, we probably ought to try E-15 since you and I have Nascar engines in our mini-vans. I'm thinking I ought to try the e-100 since I also have a 2000 HP alcohol funny car engine in my ford f150." You assume E100 is unrealistic and impractical. But, E100 is what is sold at the pump in Brazil. The cars are basically the same FFVs sold here. The joke appears to be on you.
reb4 Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,076 Points:1,818,125 Joined:Sep 2004	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 7:26:08 PM Ignore reb4 Report Abuse got it, now that you explained it... Of course, with all the mods done with the "stock cars" it is a little funny. I wonder how much it's impacted Nascar fans to use ethanol in their cars... Childress is into ethanol.... nice layout, but might require the extra $"s from corn endorsements
RedRider1OK All-Star Author Oklahoma City Posts:943 Points:25,440 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 6:44:27 PM Ignore RedRider1OK Report Abuse reb4, the mini-van comment was a joke as is relating the use of ethanol in race cars to our daily drivers. If that was the case, everyone would be using Nitromethane in their grocery getters. 7000 HP TOP FUEL grocery getter, that would be practical (not) and much more quicker than one powered by ethanol.
gamechanger2011 Champion Author Wichita Posts:1,525 Points:54,110 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 10:00:47 AM Ignore gamechanger2011 Report Abuse Richard Childress recently joined Growth Energy. He has become an ethanol advocate. Racing Legend Richard Childress Joins Growth Energy “I’m a believer in American ethanol as a clean, renewable fuel that we can use today to displace our nation’s reliance on foreign oil, while we lower emissions. I’m in the racing business, and we need fuel to race, but with ethanol and E15 we have an option to use a fuel that’s cleaner and better for America’s economy and national security,” said Childress. “At the end of the day, I’m a grandfather and an outdoorsman, and the more I find out about how ethanol can reduce pollution and preserve the outdoors for my grandchildren, the more I want more Americans to use ethanol.”
reb4 Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,076 Points:1,818,125 Joined:Sep 2004	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 8:59:22 AM Ignore reb4 Report Abuse redrider, never owned a minivan, though i confess I wanted to... Biggest i ever got was station wagons. I do have my Prius Utility vehicle... which I have hauled a lot of furniture in while getting over 50MPG! I believe the minimum for nascar is e15 but doing a cursory search of nascar could not find the rules (interesting, another reason not to like Nascar...) Here is the partnership for Nascar to use ethanol... interesting the roles this article attributes to the advertising... Wiki link for information (for all the wiki fans)... "2011 marked one of the largest “green initiatives” in the fifty plus year history of NASCAR when all fuel sources were to include Ethanol in a blend called E15[24] . One unintended consequence of the conversion was higher horsepower and therefore slightly lower fuel economy. It is argued however, that the reduction in fuel economy and the resultant increase in fuel use may offset any environmental impact savings by reduced emissions."
RedRider1OK All-Star Author Oklahoma City Posts:943 Points:25,440 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 7:33:05 AM Ignore RedRider1OK Report Abuse Sorry GC, but business deals are usually kept private. I can tell you Sunoco provides the fuel for free as does the ethanol industry. For this and $ paid to NASCAR, advertising is given in return. Owners have no choice except to use the mandated Sunoco E-15.
jay93LA Champion Author New Orleans Posts:2,428 Points:595,710 Joined:Aug 2011	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 6:23:03 AM Ignore jay93LA Report Abuse not
gamechanger2011 Champion Author Wichita Posts:1,525 Points:54,110 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Apr 18, 2012 11:18:55 PM Ignore gamechanger2011 Report Abuse RedRider...I have links for my posts [Edited by: gamechanger2011 at 4/18/2012 11:19:53 PM EST]
gamechanger2011 Champion Author Wichita Posts:1,525 Points:54,110 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Apr 18, 2012 11:18:55 PM Ignore gamechanger2011 Report Abuse RedRider...so you are a Nascar expert now? Let's see a link to backup your claim?
RedRider1OK All-Star Author Oklahoma City Posts:943 Points:25,440 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Apr 18, 2012 10:56:45 PM Ignore RedRider1OK Report Abuse Hey Reb4, we probably ought to try E-15 since you and I have Nascar engines in our mini-vans. I'm thinking I ought to try the e-100 since I also have a 2000 HP alcohol funny car engine in my ford f150. The only reason NASCAR uses E-15 is not by owner choice but by NASCAR mandate. Sound familiar.
gamechanger2011 Champion Author Wichita Posts:1,525 Points:54,110 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Apr 18, 2012 7:32:02 PM Ignore gamechanger2011 Report Abuse hehe Reb4....very funny!
GM1954 Champion Author Illinois Posts:7,950 Points:131,880 Joined:Dec 2004	Message Posted: Apr 18, 2012 5:55:20 PM Ignore GM1954 Report Abuse Brazil standardized on 20% several years ago. They drive some of the same cars we do here.
timmyC4 Veteran Author Twin Cities Posts:417 Points:60,600 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Apr 18, 2012 4:03:08 PM Ignore timmyC4 Report Abuse I'm all for you buying corn.
reb4 Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,076 Points:1,818,125 Joined:Sep 2004	Message Posted: Apr 18, 2012 1:35:10 PM Ignore reb4 Report Abuse "In NASCAR, we are using Sunoco Green E15, a blend of 15 percent ethanol and 85 percent gasoline." So you are now a Nascar driver? Which "team" are you on? Oh, nevermind... that's just excerpts of the article... [Edited by: reb4 at 4/18/2012 1:37:29 PM EST]