Breye
Rookie Author
Ontario
Posts:35
Points:11,815
Joined:May 2006
|
Message Posted: Jun 26, 2012 4:31:29 PM
END ALL SUBSIDIES NOW!
|
Pitbull1
Veteran Author
Detroit
Posts:395
Points:23,790
Joined:Mar 2011
|
Message Posted: May 7, 2011 4:20:07 PM
shockjock1961 - I have never taken a dime of welfare in over 30 years I have worked. I purhase as much American made products as I can and try to protect our Jobs and economy. I purchased an American made truck that is flex fuel ready. I enjoy making jokes about it because you are so against something like ethonal. I put both fuels in my vehicle and like having the alternatives. I don't give a rats ass about subsidies and what the government gives money and taxes too. Because I cannot control what the government does and neither can you. Purchasing gas or E 85 is something I need to do regardless of anything else. Why bash people for using something that is available. Next you'll be bitching about electric cars. We have to do something or it will be 1973 all over again. Really?
|
PhilT08
Champion Author
Buffalo
Posts:2,106
Points:121,695
Joined:Oct 2008
|
Message Posted: Apr 29, 2011 9:06:11 PM
""""For gallons produced, ethanol enjoys subsidies 20 times greater then oil...""""
show us the numbers shocky
|
Shockjock1961
Champion Author
Illinois
Posts:20,124
Points:2,186,135
Joined:Apr 2006
|
Message Posted: Apr 29, 2011 8:47:18 PM
For gallons produced, ethanol enjoys subsidies 20 times greater then oil...
Subsides on both fuels need to go...
[Edited by: Shockjock1961 at 4/29/2011 8:47:39 PM EST]
|
Gypsy_tech
All-Star Author
Minnesota
Posts:538
Points:15,675
Joined:May 2008
|
Message Posted: Apr 28, 2011 12:07:51 PM
More like time to kill the Oil Subsidies which are in the billions.
|
jacksfan
Champion Author
Lincoln
Posts:2,554
Points:1,238,380
Joined:May 2006
|
Message Posted: Apr 28, 2011 10:14:51 AM
"How pathetic!"
Spoken like a true Illinois welfare recipient (by his own definition).
|
Shockjock1961
Champion Author
Illinois
Posts:20,124
Points:2,186,135
Joined:Apr 2006
|
Message Posted: Apr 28, 2011 9:02:13 AM
SS is that all you have?
How pathetic!
|
SilverStreaker
Champion Author
Twin Cities
Posts:11,944
Points:2,217,515
Joined:Mar 2006
|
Message Posted: Apr 28, 2011 8:59:13 AM
There goes another happy welfare recipient from Illinois...
|
Shockjock1961
Champion Author
Illinois
Posts:20,124
Points:2,186,135
Joined:Apr 2006
|
Message Posted: Apr 27, 2011 9:53:50 PM
"Thanks guys for the subsidies, sure helps my wallet out!"
There goes another happy welfare recipient from Michigan....
|
Pitbull1
Veteran Author
Detroit
Posts:395
Points:23,790
Joined:Mar 2011
|
Message Posted: Apr 27, 2011 8:43:41 PM
Go aRBy Go! Just filled up the truck today with yet another tank of E-85. Thanks guys for the subsidies, sure helps my wallet out!
|
Shockjock1961
Champion Author
Illinois
Posts:20,124
Points:2,186,135
Joined:Apr 2006
|
Message Posted: Apr 27, 2011 9:35:00 AM
"For the past 37 years, America has been taxed by an evil king from far off shores who has manipulated the price of petroleum to plunder America's wealth in a manner our founding fathers could not have imagined in their wildest dreams."
The thing you forgot to mention is that we Americans have do this by choice...
"Ethanol is one such alternative and it can be manufactured in greater quantities to meet demand. It's just that simple."
Well then it should be capable of standing on it's own two feet and shouldn't require both subsidies and minimum usage mandates to make it appear viable...
|
Cummins2500
Champion Author
Iowa
Posts:3,128
Points:752,375
Joined:Jan 2007
|
Message Posted: Apr 26, 2011 12:30:18 PM
aRBy,
You don't think yesterday when the EPA stopped Shell from drilling for the 27-90 billion barrels of oil in Alaska ( because it did not include emission from an ice breaker ship) is not restricting the supply of oil and in turn automotive fuels that affect our economy?
BTW did you know that 27 billion barrels of oil is equal to 2.5 times the amount of oil that has flowed through the Alaska pipeline in the last 30 year?
|
aRBy
Veteran Author
Grand Rapids
Posts:447
Points:300,930
Joined:May 2005
|
Message Posted: Apr 25, 2011 10:40:34 PM
emmettgalloway:
"The constitutional task of the federal government is to keep free markets open."
Can you quote me the passage in the US Constitution that states this?
I like free markets but the national interest supersedes free markets.
Do you think the price of petroleum is determined by free market economics?
Our constitution was established by men who fought against taxation without representation by an evil king from far off shores. For the past 37 years, America has been taxed by an evil king from far off shores who has manipulated the price of petroleum to plunder America's wealth in a manner our founding fathers could not have imagined in their wildest dreams. Whatever your objection to ethanol is, you cannot sincerely berate ethanol automotive fuels in the name of "free markets".
There are few constants in the history of mankind but there is one that is beyond argument. Human beings endeavor to produce things that are in demand. When an item is in demand, human beings endeavor to produce more of it.
Automotive fuels are in demand. Saudi-dominated OPEC is restricting the supply of automotive fuels in order to plunder our economy. Therefore, whether you like it or not, humankind will find alternatives. Ethanol is one such alternative and it can be manufactured in greater quantities to meet demand. It's just that simple.
|
emmettgalloway
Champion Author
Louisiana
Posts:1,905
Points:327,905
Joined:Jun 2005
|
Message Posted: Apr 25, 2011 8:01:59 AM
The federal government should not be subsidizing anything(with our money)whether ethanol, crude oil production, gasoline production, diesel production, agriculture, etc.
Free people should have free markets. The constitutional task of the federal government is to keep free markets open.
Subsidies make some masters and some slaves.
|
aRBy
Veteran Author
Grand Rapids
Posts:447
Points:300,930
Joined:May 2005
|
Message Posted: Apr 24, 2011 6:49:51 PM
I will gladly trade a relaxation of ethanol subsidies and tariffs for a flex fuel mandate. When all vehicles sold in America are flex fuel, we can, and should end ethanol subsidies and tariffs at that time. We should also change the ASTM standard for fuel ethanol to allow hydrous ethanol.
Once all vehicles sold in America are flex fuel, all petroleum subsidies should also end. This includes defense expenditures protecting Persian Gulf OPEC countries' petroleum trade.
I have long thought that America's ethanol policy was putting the cart before the horse. Mandating flex fuel cars makes more sense than subsidizing ethanol. Once our vehicles are flex fuel, the market will PULL ethanol production to a natural level. Pushing ethanol supply on a consuming public that can't fully make use of it is an inferior policy.
I'm a big fan of ethanol fuel, but our policy can be improved for the betterment of everybody.
|
SilverStreaker
Champion Author
Twin Cities
Posts:11,944
Points:2,217,515
Joined:Mar 2006
|
Message Posted: Apr 24, 2011 3:24:40 PM
Time to kill petroleum subsidies.
|
rv2LA
Champion Author
Louisiana
Posts:3,580
Points:714,855
Joined:Mar 2011
|
Message Posted: Apr 23, 2011 8:33:00 PM
I vote yes to kill it
|
Cummins2500
Champion Author
Iowa
Posts:3,128
Points:752,375
Joined:Jan 2007
|
Message Posted: Apr 22, 2011 5:19:49 PM
From the CBO Biofuels.pdf.
.
.
The incentives that the tax credits provide to producers
of biofuels differ among the fuels. After adjustments for the different energy contents of the various biofuels and the petroleum fuel used to produce them, producers of ethanol made from corn receive 73 cents to provide an amount of biofuel with the energy equivalent to that in one gallon of gasoline. On a similar basis, producers of cellulosic ethanol receive $1.62, and producers of biodiesel receive $1.08.The costs to taxpayers of reducing consumption of petroleum fuels differ by biofuel.
.
.
Such costs depend on the size of the tax credit for each fuel, the changes
in federal revenues that result from the difference in the excise taxes collected on sales of gasoline and biofuels, and the amount of biofuels that would have been produced if the credits had not been available.
The costs to taxpayers of using a biofuel to reduce gasoline consumption by one gallon are $1.78 for ethanol made from corn and $3.00 for cellulosic ethanol. The cost of reducing an equivalent amount of diesel fuel (that is, a quantity having the same amount of energy as a gallon of gasoline) using biodiesel is $2.55, based on the tax policy in place through last year.
I agree we need to End all subsidies for, corn, ethanol and crude oil ASAP!
|
CovertOps3
Rookie Author
California
Posts:7
Points:840
Joined:Jun 2009
|
Message Posted: Apr 21, 2011 11:50:11 PM
The blending credit is a relic from the days when blending ethanol into gasoline was an OPTION, not a REQUIREMENT. Back in the day when gasoline was cheap, oil refiners did not voluntarily add ethanol to gasoline because it did not make economical sense. The credit was a handout to farm states that grow lots of corn; it gave oil refiners an incentive to blend ethanol into gasoline because they received the credit for doing so.
However, the federal government now mandates that a certain volume of ethanol is blended into the gasoline pool every year. Thus, there is no longer any reason to reward refiners for adding ethanol to gasoline.
Why should our tax dollars pay for something that refiners have to do anyway?
|
Alpha_Pup
Champion Author
Twin Cities
Posts:4,440
Points:1,595,990
Joined:Jan 2002
|
Message Posted: Apr 21, 2011 10:24:59 AM
Are any of you aware that the 45cents is a pass-through to the retailer??
That and RFS is why it should end.
|
FIREJKP22
All-Star Author
Pittsburgh
Posts:588
Points:243,700
Joined:Feb 2003
|
Message Posted: Apr 21, 2011 8:18:40 AM
I'd much rather only pay 45 cents a gallon to the oil industry rather than $4 dollars a gallon to the oil industry. That's a huge cut in profits for them. That son, is not an idiotic statement or plan.
|
RedRider1OK
All-Star Author
Oklahoma City
Posts:943
Points:25,440
Joined:Mar 2008
|
Message Posted: Apr 21, 2011 7:04:57 AM
"The 6 billion of blender credits (much of which goes to oil companies)"
So, Are you for it (the blender credit) which goes to oil/refining companies?
Support these subsidies and continue to support the oil/refining companies that receive them. It's your choice.
End these subsidies now!
|
goldseeker
Champion Author
West Virginia
Posts:19,550
Points:2,719,790
Joined:Sep 2005
|
Message Posted: Apr 20, 2011 10:08:59 PM
The 6 billion of blender credits (much of which goes to oil companies) is only a drop in the bucket compared to the countless billions that oil companies get.
Sorry, you have been busted again. If you want a level playing field, that is fine with me.
We all know what the real truth is.
|
aRBy
Veteran Author
Grand Rapids
Posts:447
Points:300,930
Joined:May 2005
|
Message Posted: Apr 20, 2011 10:06:31 PM
Goldseeker:
If we pass an open fuels standard (flex fuel cars mandatory) and allow hydrous ethanol, ethanol would likely be competitive with gasoline. (FYI, I studied your dissertation about hydrous vs. anhydrous ethanol and found your comments to have considerable merit.)
Frankly, I think ethanol subsidies are just a diversionary tactic by oil lobbyists. The real challenge is to have an open fuels standard whereby all cars sold in America can run on any combination of gasoline, ethanol and methanol.
Gasoline is expensive NOW. Drilling won't do anything for us NOW. The QUICKEST way to bring more automobile fuel to market is to make more alcohol fuels. It's just that simple and no diversionary issues can change this simple fact.
|
RedRider1OK
All-Star Author
Oklahoma City
Posts:943
Points:25,440
Joined:Mar 2008
|
Message Posted: Apr 20, 2011 9:11:37 PM
When the truth hurts, it's time to direct your anger to another industry.
Nice redirect.
END ETHANOL SUBSIDIES NOW!
"Let's make Oil companies, who post 300 Billion Dollar Profits and don't pay a penny in taxes even richer..."
Firejkp, Are you aware that the 45 cent/gallon federal tax break goes to the oil companies? Are you also aware that there are state tax breaks for the same? By ending the ethanol blender subsidies, we're lowering the tax breaks to the oil companies. So, if you are for keeping the ethanol blender subsidies, then you are for giving the oil companies more tax breaks.
Looks like you made "the most idiotic statement anyone could make."
|
FIREJKP22
All-Star Author
Pittsburgh
Posts:588
Points:243,700
Joined:Feb 2003
|
Message Posted: Apr 20, 2011 11:28:45 AM
RedRider, that's the most idiotic statement anyone could make.
Let's make Oil companies, who post 300 Billion Dollar Profits and don't pay a penny in taxes even richer...
|
goldseeker
Champion Author
West Virginia
Posts:19,550
Points:2,719,790
Joined:Sep 2005
|
Message Posted: Apr 19, 2011 11:17:10 PM
What a joke. So you want to do away with ethanol subsidies. Does that mean that you and your oil shill buddies want it all for yourself.
Lets make a deal. We will get rid of ethanol subsidies only when oil companies get rid of their subsidies. OK?
And the real truth is?
Oil Subsidies: The Joke's on Taxpayers
The True Cost of Oil: $65 Trillion a Year?
Must I go on.
|